Hello and welcome back to Cases Closed. My name is Sam Carlson, and today we’re talking with Michelle Sims, who’s on Zoom with me and we’ve got a really cool conversation. And I wanna frame it up before we get started. When it comes to getting new patients, I’ve seen a lot of people quit before they even started. It’s almost like somebody shot the gun at the beginning of the race, and nobody left the blocks. And that has to do from my perspective of misunderstanding how the new patient journey starts. I’m talking specifically about the process after you generate a lead, to that leads showing up in your practice. How do we maximize our results? How do we do that the best way possible? And so to kind of share with us her expertise and her success in doing that, I’ve got Michelle Sims here from Nacogdoches, Texas. How are you doing Michelle?

– [Michelle] I’m doing great, thank you, Sam. How are you?

– I’m doing so good. I will also preface this with, and I’ve said this before, hopefully you’re not too embarrassed, but Michelle is one of my favorite Patient Stream users ever. So, do you know that Michelle?

– [Michelle] That’s very nice of you, Sam.

– Well, and it’s not unfounded. You were one of the first people when we were launching Patient Stream into a new audience, you were one of the first people who really volunteered and said, “Hey, I’ll be a guinea pig.” And, because of that, I got to know you early and I’ve been really impressed by how you guys do things over there. You and your husband’s name is Dr. Scott Sims.

– [Michelle] Right, and I managed his office.

– Yes, that’s correct. So cool. So before we get too far into this, I wanna talk about, and we don’t need you to brag about your results or anything like that, but I wanna talk about why this is important and what you guys have been able to do in this time, I mean, we’re still in this whole COVID thing, right? So talk to us a little bit about what you’ve been able to do in your practice by really, well using Patient Stream and then focusing on what we’re gonna talk about today.

– [Michelle] Okay. We were really looking for something to help us with time management when we got new leads. Back when we first started with Patient Stream , our marketing company that we were working with was producing great leads. And I was using just this really rudimentary texting app. And I had some templates made but I was doing all of this by hand. I made a sheet for every person that came in and was just going through the notebook every day and just sending texts to each individual person based on what stage of the sequence they were in. So this was very time intensive for me. And also we wanted something that was automated that we could make a template, that we could count on, it was a quality product. It was just going out, bam, bam, bam, and we knew exactly what was happening time-wise with each new lead. So we got started with Patients Stream, Sam and Jacob and Heather are our top-notch customer service, people, just everything we’ve needed, they’ve been able to figure it out. And so we started with Patient Stream, it was very time-intensive at first, because we wanted to personalize all of the tech sequences that went out to the patients. You don’t have to do that, but I would certainly recommend it. So I did all of that, we got things going. We did some reactivation texts of old leads that we had for a long time ago and got a few of those. Our main focus was on current leads that we were getting. So we started the process and through all of this COVID just the craziness —

– The craziness right.

– [Michelle] For the last nine months, we will have grown 30% this year in our practice over last year and over the last three years, 150%.

– That’s amazing. That is absolutely amazing. And, when you first started with Patient Stream we were doing mostly just lead automate yeah, just lead management and that type of automation. And so yeah, you came in and we started doing reactivation campaigns with our automation, as well as you then were able to take that automation and really systematize your follow up process. And there’s a, a saying in sales that the fortune is in the follow up and you know all of these cliche phrases have some, they come from some source of credibility. And I think in your case, there’s a couple of things that you really do. In fact, you’re one of the people that I cite when, like if you want to clear the bottleneck up so you can get a lot of new patients, you’re one of the people that I cite that has gone through the steps to do that. And so I wanna start focusing again, this is going to be based around that process of, okay you get a lead, we need them to show up. Okay, so there’s the question of we need the right people showing up, that’s one thing. If they’re committing to show up, we don’t want, we wanna keep that, that no-show rate, we wanna keep that down as much as possible. So I kinda wanna start in that process and maybe the best way to do that is just to kinda share your story of how you started that process and some of the things you did to refine it. ‘Cause you’re filling up your books. How far backed up are you right now as far as new appointments?

– [Michelle] Well, December is always a little tricky because of the holiday and things like that. So, we’re booked well, almost completely full for next week. And then that’ll take us to Christmas. So, you know, Dr. Sims left today to go see Dr. Barlow and Mississippi for training and he could barely get out of there today.

– And I know you guys were booked out for several weeks and you continue to do that. So that was a process. It wasn’t always that way.

– Right.

– Right.

– [Michelle] So the first thing that I would say is, in using Patient Stream , you have to have the perspective if it’s a tool, and just like a ranch or a hammer it’s not going to do the work until you pick it up and use it. So just signing up and having that as a tool that’s not going to be effective. You have to have someone in your office that takes this on as their job. That this is their baby, this is what they’re going to be in charge of. It has to be one contact person. I would suggest that that contact person is the detail oriented person in your office. They need to be clear on the doctor’s message. They need to be a perfectionist when it comes to written texts that leaves your office and what that needs to look like. And so my first tip would be to assign it to the right person within your office. Secondly.

– And the opposite of that would be have it float around to people.

– Right, that’ll never work.

– Right, that won’t work, I agree. I agree with that. If you do have other people working on those efforts with you, there still has to be a person in charge. Like this is where the buck stops with that person. Because again if it’s floating around, nobody has responsibility and I think you’re absolutely right with that. So what was your second thing?

– [Michelle] The second thing is that person needs to sit down, talk with his or her doctor and decide what’s the message for our office. What do we want these text messages to convey? So I went through all the campaigns and personalized all the text messages with some of our pictures of our staff, so that when they come into the office, they recognize a friendly face. Just vocabulary needs to be consistent with what we’re going to be saying on the phone. So somebody needs to personalize all of their campaigns, take the time, put your own testimonials in there. It may just be that your lead see something, they see a testimonial and they know that person personally, that’s happened to us a couple of times.

– Yeah, and I think this was actually this particular task that we’re talking about personalizing your follow up campaigns, that was the first training you and I did together. Oh, no, we did the reactivation campaign first, right?

– [Michelle] Yes.

– Okay, so the second one we did together was personalizing the follow up process. And the title of that training was in fact, I’ll link it, I’ll link that training below in this video, on my YouTube channel. But the start of that training was basically to have a no spam follow up, all right. And so while we give you Patient Stream, and by the way we’re not the only automated software that does the follow up or the lead management automation, but what we give you is, prebuilt follow up chats, emails whatever, we give that all to you. But I’ll be the first one and you’ve heard, I mean, we did that on the training together. Anytime somebody talks to me, I’m like, that’s good. That’s a B, right, you’re going to get a, B you might get a degree or you’ll get a degree. But if you want the A you’re gonna do what Michelle does or what Michelle did. And that is taking a look at what we’ve written and editing those follow up sequences to have, and I always say heart, like I said, Michelle’s just have heart. They’ve got, Haley’s picture on them. There was a picture of Haley there. Okay, and it’s it’s, hey, give me a call. Like the language is very colloquial to your geographical location as well. So I can’t, I mean, from my perspective that one thing, right, there is a huge like a huge thing that you can do to make it not seem like a machine, ’cause nobody wants to, we love automation and we love what it does for our businesses, but if you’re an end user, you don’t want to feel like that’s a machine following up with you. You want it to be a person, that’s what you want. So you guys have done a good job at merging the, two using the automation but also injecting your personality into the process.

– [Michelle] Right, so along with that, I would say the next step, so the first step is personalized. The next step that we took was training your staff. And every practice management group says this over and over and all of us roll our eyes because we think–

– We don’t wanna do it.

– [Michelle] Right, but it is imperative. So, you’re asking people to call the office or your staff is going to be calling, to the lead and there has to be a common language that’s spoken by your staff and there has to be some scripting going on there so that when Dr. Sims meets with that person the first time, he wants to know exactly what was already said to that patient both in text messages and in phone calls. So to do that, you have to practice, have to have those scripts. You have to promote patient confidence in the office. So that takes a lot of training. Some of the things that we’ve tried in the last few weeks that seem to be working well, we choose one or two things that we know we need to say in a phone call. For instance, Dr. Sims is an expert in neuropathy care, you’ve called the right place. We write the word expert right place on a post-it note and we put it in front of all the phones in our office.

– Oh, that is so smart. Yes, okay I love it. Keep going.

– [Michelle] We also think of some things that we know we need to quit saying. Like just, or well, or I’m not sure. And we write those things small and we put a red line through them like a ghostbuster sign to remind us.

– I love it.

– [Michelle] We don’t wanna say things that promote indecisiveness in a patient, instead of saying, do you want to reschedule? We say, let’s go ahead and get that rescheduled.

– Yes.

– [Michelle] So just does trainings every week when we train, we choose one or two words we want to focus on and maybe something we’re trying to get rid of in our phone calls and we post that on post-it notes. That’s worked .

– That is a genius because making those, well first training doing training, nobody wants to do training. I don’t wanna do training. And so I understand that, but I cannot tell you in fact, on our new patient school trainings, we do with Dr. Wells, which you’ve been on a lot of those. He does nothing but talk about training, like every single, whether it’s day, one, day two, whatever a scripting, whatever it is, we’re always talking about, hey, you need to train on this, you need to train on this. He never goes two weeks without a training. And he says, that’s way too long. And I totally agree with him because by training and the repetition, people are going to get better at all these things. And it’s funny because you’ll have, like you have these posts, your ghostbuster notes, I love that, you’ll have these things that you’ll do that for a week. And then the next week you’ll do a different one and so on and so forth. And over time, those soft skills become part of that person become part of your staff. And now you’re, it’s just, if you want to, the soft skills that you need to acquire to have the type of success that you guys are having, they’re not something that you just, you wing it, you don’t wing it. Okay, some people can wing it better than others. And I think those people are dangerous because as soon as that staff member leaves, they’re left high and dry. But in your case, you need to script it, have a script. Do you have your own script or do you use somebody else’s script?

– [Michelle] We’ve modified a variety of scripts that we’ve gotten from different through the years and we’ve personalized them again for our part of the country and just for our needs at our office. And the word script scares people. And even when we’re training, sometimes the ladies in our front office will say, that just sounds weird to me, how about if I say it this way? And so we just keep brainstorming and it’s evolving, it’s a living document that script is. It changes and we’re constantly having to go back to it and say, what is genuine? What sounds forced? Because in the end we wanna help our patients. And–

– I think that’s the point of

– [Michelle] Yes, getting them in the office is important but helping them requires them coming to the office. So we have to do the work necessary, even if it’s a little uncomfortable from time to time and take some training to do what we need to do to get them there because then the real, the great part starts.

– Yeah and I think what you’re saying is right because a lot of people, because they use a script, they naturally, and it’s, I’m guessing this is something cultural, I don’t know, but they naturally say, well, I’m being manipulative then. It’s not that even a little bit. It has nothing to do with that. The reality is if you don’t know how to help a person, people will do anything to self-sabotage. They will, if you have a solution to their problem, and you guys you talked about neuropathy, you guys have a great protocol to help people with neuropathy. Well, what happens if they don’t believe you, then they’re gonna eventually have to get their foot lopped off potentially. I mean, that is the eventual progression of that particular condition. So I think that when you’re talking about scripting there is a greater purpose here. We don’t do it to manipulate anybody, we do it to help people get out of their own way so they can receive education. If by the end of the education process, if they’re not, I don’t even want to say the word sold, but if they’re not convinced or persuaded that this is their solution, then you’re not gonna break their arm and make ’em do anything. But you wanna give them the best opportunity to become educated because an educated patient will convert to care. They will absolutely convert to care. But if you can’t get ’em out of the starting blocks, they ain’t going anywhere. So I think whether it’s a script and we have a Patient Stream , we have a script that I love, it’s something that I wrote, I mean, it’s good. But it’s good, you can, like you said, adapt it, make it your own, workshop it with your staff, let them give their input. And you’ll come up with something that becomes like breadcrumbs, it helps you, it helps you follow a process to then again, educate your patients. Okay, so was that step two or three?

– [Michelle] That was step two. So we had personalized Patient Stream then train your staff. And then the last thing that I would say, is have your process. So before you go in to train your staff on the use of Patient Stream on how it’s gonna work in your office, your office manager needs to have already decided what the process is going to be for every lead that comes in the office. In our office, that means the lead comes in, the ones that we have they are filtered straight into Patient Stream, that’s great. And that’s the best way to do it because they’re automatically getting those texts. But the minute I come into the office at the beginning of the day, I go into the email and I make what we call a lead sheet for every single lead that came in the night before or over the weekend, if it’s a Monday. And I just have their name where the lead was acquired, so Patients Stream neuro 47 at the top and their phone number. Because Patient Stream already has the email address, so I don’t even have to worry about that. So that very first day my staff, calls every single one of those people. They call them once in the morning if they don’t get to anyone, they hang up they call right back after, maybe 30 seconds or so, if there’s still no answer then they leave a voicemail. And then they try again in the afternoon. So that very first day that someone submits their information through Patient Stream , they’re getting a few text messages and they’re getting a personal phone call from someone on our staff. So that’s our day one process for a new lead. Now that same piece of paper is gonna float around our office, for a couple of days, we have this process of where it goes and a few days later it’s going back on their desk again because I’ve put it there. And it’s been two or three days, if we still have not made an appointment or have a contact with this person, they haven’t replied to any text messages, we do the same thing again, we call them once in the morning, if we don’t hear from them, we don’t leave a message in the morning on the second round of calls, in the afternoon we call one more time and leave a voicemail once more. Anything that is said in text or on the phone gets written on that lead sheet. So if one of our front desk ladies talks to them, they make their appointment, it gets logged in on that sheet, highlighted in yellow so that I can then go in and put it in Patient Stream and the sequencing, so they start getting their text messages. Just any information, one of the things we ask on call is, tell me how long you’ve been experiencing neuropathy. What symptoms are you experiencing right now? So we write all of that down. If they’re from a neighboring town, we write that. If they have a husband in the hospital right now, we write that down. Just any personal connection that we’ve made with the patient gets written on that lead sheet. Now there are tabs, in Patient Stream for notes. So you could totally do it that way, but our staff, because I’m in charge of Patient Stream and they’re in charge of calls, we just feel like it’s best to have it in writing in front of us.

– I agree. Yeah I like that approach. In fact, I mean, I, myself, I’m a little old school. I’ll get to, to my office at the beginning of the day. And I don’t put my action items and my to dos, my planning. I don’t put them on my computer. I put them on a piece of paper and I say, okay these are all the things I have to do. It’s sitting there, I mean, you have so many windows and so many things going on in your computer already that for me, it’s easy, it’s more simplified just to say, hey, okay this is how I do this thing and that’s totally fine. So I love that. You’ve got, so you’ve got this paper going around, you’re letting Patients Stream do it’s automated thing, like following up with leads but you’re also making, your following your protocol to make those phone calls. And then one of the things that you guys have done and I think this is really awesome, is you have tested your follow up call to action. And what I mean by, by that is specifically, when a lead is generated, a notification text is sent to them saying, hey, we got your information, okay. And there’s a couple of things that we all want that patient to come in, we want there to be zero effort. That’s in fairytale land, but there’s a couple of things you can do to get that person in. And I’ll name a couple, but you guys have really tested that and fine tuned, which ones to use on which conditions. And let me, let me be a little bit more, I feel like I’m being a little vague. So that notification text goes out, right now, the default inPatient Stream is, hey, so-and-so you did it. Congratulations, we look forward to helping you claim whatever the offer was. Here’s what to do next. Schedule an appointment, what time works, right? It’s going straight for the schedule. Now you can modify it like you guys have and you can change that and there’s a couple of reasons why you would, you might change it to where, and I know, do all of yours default now to, “Hey we’ve got your information, give the clinic a call.”

– [Michelle] They don’t all say that, I mean, that it is offered. Like, if you prefer priority scheduling that’s the word we like to use, go ahead and give us a call. Otherwise someone from our team will be in touch with you later today.

– And is that the way it is on all of your follow up conditions or is it just that way on like neuropathy or knee?

– [Michelle] Both of our campaigns, knee and neuropathy both approach it from that direction. We don’t ask for prepays for appointments for neuropathy, because in general we have a great show rate for neuropathy. Knee not so much, our show rates really low for, for knee. So we do in the very first text, we do let them know that Dr. Sims is gonna be spending a large amount of time with you during your knee appointment. And so we asked them to go ahead and pre-pay. So that’s in the very first text. So when my front desk person calls them, my front desk person has no worries about asking for that payment, because the patient’s already aware that that’s going to happen in the phone call.

– Well, and so I’ll say what the third one is, but before I do that you didn’t flippantly arrive to that conclusion, you tested it, you tried it. And you know, you guys saw which one, which is funny ’cause what you experienced there, and this is an important message for anybody watching this right now, what you’re experiencing there is the opposite of what the general rule would be. The general rule would be knee leads is gonna be more qualified than neuropathy leads by the way. But it just so happens that in your location, that’s not the case, okay. So I wanna take a couple steps back. So, Patient Stream defaults to scheduling. That’s not always right, but that’s, we can’t, customize it for everybody. So it’s that, you guys have them call you. There’s another one where, this is one that would probably work for anybody, and that is engaging them first about the condition about the symptomology. Like, hey Michelle, you did it, thank you. We’ve got your information before we move on to your appointment, can I ask you a few questions about your knee pain, about your neuropathy? And so the conversation starter is like, hey before we, before we talk about, getting you into the clinic, ’cause that’s very us, it’s like, hey, where we make money. It’s more like let’s find out about you make sure this is a fit. And that comes off a lot lower pressure and good in a lot of ways. So there’s a couple of different approaches that you can take the big messages that you guys have taken the time to think, okay what is going to work best in Nacogdoches, Texas? Which Nacogdoches, Texas, didn’t you say that was the oldest town in Texas.

– [Michelle] Yes.

– And I remember the first I read it, I was like what is that word? Nacogdoches, Texas, but it’s your place, it’s an awesome place so–

– [Michelle] It’s a great place to live.

– It’s a great place to live. So it’s a process, making sure that the lead automation as well as your guys’s scripting that’s all something that you’re tweaking and refining based on feedback. Is that right?

– [Michelle] Always. I mean, even today I was answering some, conversations in my Patients’ Stream people that had texted back and I needed to let them know some things. So I went back through my campaigns which I do every so often and just tweaked a little bit more, what was working? What do I wanna try next? Just continuing to go back. I know I emailed Heather today because I realized last night when I was talking to Dr. Sims, that we have all these old neuropathy leads from way before Patients Stream that are in there and I wanna send them a text message about the thermography offer. So, it’s just, it’s like it’s a living document, you have to keep going back testing new things, getting new ideas. It’s not a do it once and you’re done forever kind of thing.

– Yeah, well, and I wanted to talk to you today, largely because you present soft skills that most people don’t even give any sense of acknowledgement to. Like they don’t even think that they’re a thing. They think that, and I’ll be the first to admit, Patient Stream is awesome, but there’s no such thing as black box marketing, meaning, okay I flipped the switch and then you get rich. If that was the case, then there would be only rich people. And the reality is there’s are soft skills and subjective skills. And when you understand I guess my real goal is when you understand how to start the new patient journey and that you tweak and that you refine that process, then you can have amazing results. You can fill up your clinic for weeks during COVID. You can control your new patient flow. And by the way, one of the other things, instead of spending three hours a day, doing that, now you spend a fraction of that, right?

– [Michelle] It has saved me so much time and now I’m able to do other things for the clinic that I was not able to do before. So I’m there as a backup person and we do way more training now because I have time to put that together. I don’t wanna waste my staff’s time by just filling it with a training. It, I want it to be great. So a lot of times what I’ll do is I’ll take maybe something at one of the webinars that you did, and I’ll find what I think are the best 10 minutes of the first half of the training. And we’ll watch that 10 minutes together and talk about that. So I don’t have to come up with something on my own. There are plenty of tools, even just within Patient Stream for training of your staff. And I tell my staff all the time, our patients might be really happy going into a little league baseball game and they might walk away thinking that was a great game. But when they come to our office, I want it to be like Minute Maid Park, where the Astros play. I want it to be a red carpet experience from the very first text they get to the phone call to when they walk in our office, our staff member stands up and looks them in the eye and smiles at them and lets them know that we’re happy there. I want it to go all the way through their very last day of care. So Patient Stream is one of our critical tools that we use to get that experience started.

– Yeah, it’s, it’s so funny that people buy from people. And I love Patient Stream and I don’t mean to just get on and, and have an interview you so I can pitch patients and that’s not what I’m doing. But I love having Patient Stream because when used right, it allows you to, again, yeah, put that put the time and effort into improving those soft skills and the person to person interaction. You guys get on the phone, you’re talking with people, that is dollar productive activity that will pay dividends way more than any type of automation. I also love what we’re doing here, because it’s running all of that stuff and you guys are able to do it. I can focus on awesome trainings like what you’re talking about. And I mean, Dr. Wells does those, he’s doing a lot of those new patient school trains for us. He’s willing to impart his experience and everything’s he’s learned and all we want, all the goal is is for people to take 10 minutes out of it and to get a little bit of improvement, right. Because that’s how people just dial the, dial the knob just a little bit crank it up just a little bit. And before too long, that consistency and those little tiny increments of improvement those compound, and next thing you know, you’ve grown your your practice 150% in three years, three years?

– [Michelle] Three years.

– Three years and 30% in the midst of COVID. So, you know, this, this is what I think. And you know, I’d love to talk with you about, more of what happens inside of your clinic. But I think what I’m so happy and I feel like has, or has come through today is you guys really put heart and intent and thought into every person that becomes a qualified lead.

– [Michelle] Exactly.

– I love it. Well, is there anything we missed any other, any other like really important, like fulcrum points in that process that you wanted to share?

– [Michelle] I also wanted to say one thing about reactivation. So many times people think, oh, those are old leads. Like they’re dead, we just need to just dead weight. We just need to get rid of that and move on. And you know, we have had a number of patients now, is it a huge number? No, but it’s people, every piece of paper in our office it’s the old lead represents a person. It’s not just a dollar figure. It’s not just another lead. It’s a person who needs help enough that at one time they reached out. So for whatever reason, it didn’t happen, they didn’t come to the office. But keep keeps sending out those reactivation texts. Yes, you’re going to get some people who say please don’t contact me anymore. Or maybe they don’t say it so nicely and that’s okay. Move on. But we have had a number of patients who either never made it to the office or maybe made it in but at that moment, it just wasn’t the right time for them. But through Patient Streams, just those little trickle of text messages, we have had some people come on and pay for care upfront for the year. So, don’t give up on people. It’s so easy to get frustrated with numbers and papers. But remember it’s a person and so every moment that you’re spending, you’re investing in somebody’s lives.

– I think that’s so important. It’s so, most businesses, not just chiropractors not just integrated clinics, most businesses get stuck in the new user the new client, the new patient, that hamster wheel. And they’re always focusing on lead generation. And you do, you need to focus on that. But if you, if you have a hundred leads and I don’t know what your guys’s number are, but if you convert 35 of those people into patients within that initial buying window that buying cycle, that’s amazing, that’s great. But what about all of the other, the, what did I say? I said 35, so the 65 other people, were they terrible people? Were they not fit? If you did your marketing right, okay. And you focused on niche, specific marketing, all of those people raise their hand admitting, hey I have knee problems. hey, I have neuropathy problems. And maybe right now there’s so many reasons. And by the way, I’m the same way, Michelle, you’re the same way. Sometimes we don’t take instant action because either we’re busy maybe the pain point that when we rose our hand maybe kind of subside a little bit chronic pain kind of ebbs and flows like that. But at some point, timing is everything. And if at one point in time, they’re down, they’re down like the low back pain or the knee pain, whatever and it flares up again, and it just so happens that they got a reactivation text from you the week before they’re gonna be like, oh yeah maybe I should call those guys. This is really starting to bother me. I already know who to look for to help me. But most people never send reactivation texts, never. And when I talk about reactivation, I know that that’s a term that a lot of clinics use to reactivate old patients. I’m talking about old leads, your first training, when Michelle, you and I did that together, yours was a knee reactivation campaign, right? And I remember you had, if the number is right 893 knee leads from the past three years, is that right?

– [Michelle] Yes. Okay, you had 893 leads. The first campaign we did was we reactivated those leads. And you, I remember you saying, I don’t remember what the results were, but I remember you saying you got, I think you got a new patient that had been a lead for like three years. Is that right? Or did I make that up?

– [Michelle] No, you’re right. We did get a number of people respond, they at least replied back, which that’s the first step. So, and then we had, I would say probably three to five out of those became knee patients. So, I mean, it was worth it. And that’s the great thing, once you have everything set up in Patient Stream, it’s not a lot of work. So, where before the little texting app I was using if I wanted to send out a reactivation for Nate, I was having to do them 20 at a time. So go in, choose all the phone numbers, copy and paste what I wanted to say. So this is a great tool.

– Yeah, I love it. And I mean, I know we’re getting short on time, I know you need to go, but just tactically if you were a clinic, maybe you’re using Patient Stream, maybe you’re not, reactivation I think niche specific wise should be about on a 90 day calendar, okay. So every 90 days having something to do. And if you need to push it beyond that, for whatever reason you just don’t let the entire year go by without you touching those leads again, okay. And you know, between newly generation that you’re getting reactivation, the automation you’ll really keep a steady flow of patients coming in. So Michelle, this has been awesome. Thank you so much for doing this. And, yeah, this has been, this is the kind of content people need to hear because it’s you, you’re actually doing this.

– Right?

– [Michelle] Right. Thank you Sam.

– Yeah, no, thank you. Tell Scott, hello for me. Hi Scott, I’m on video and thanks again for doing this. And to everybody watching. Thank you for coming and checking this out. Hopefully you guys have enjoyed Michelle’s viewpoint and her experience on this and we’ll see you on the next video.