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Welcome back to Behind The Offer. Today I am joined with the offer makers, Jared and Nicole Soul. How are you guys doing?

Awesome.

Good.

Awesome thanks for having us. We’re excited.

So normally in Behind The Offer I’m going and I’m telling a story about the offer. Okay. So maybe I should change that to say behind the pitch. Okay. Because to me this is more of how do we craft, take a script, and an offer and create interest and desire through a pitch.

Sure.

Right? So we’re going to talk about that today, but I want to set a little bit of groundwork before we do. I’ve been entertaining the idea of having click campaigns for a while, meaning having a campaign where a doctor could walk in, a practice, could walk in and say, “Hey, these are the types of new patients I want and I’m going to select this pre-done not just ad, but actual pitch.” Okay. And the written word can only do so much when it comes to noisy offerings. Anything health related gets really noisy. There’s a lot of competition. Okay. Now I’ve been having this idea, in fact, we’ve done a lot on video. Dr. Woolner is kind of where it all started. He would create a lot of offers for his own stuff and it would always work. Right. Whenever we would write a script, we would take a version of his original script, which is called the infomercial script. We’d adapt it and, he’s very relatable. He’s very good on camera.

Sure.

Well just because he is, doesn’t mean that all the other folks that are chiropractors or physicians of different types are, at all. In fact, most are not. Most are that introspective. They’re very good at problem solving, but they’re not really great at communicating the sales side, they’re not good at that.

Right well, and part of the reason why Dr. Woolner is good at it is because he’s a musician.

That’s true. He’s a performer.

He’s a performer already.

Right. That’s true. So the idea came to me like, “Okay, well I wonder if.” And I’ve kind of been dinking around with it a while and really just got stuck in the same thing I was doing. And then you guys reached out to me. It’s funny because I was like, “I’m going to do this now. I’m going to do it.” And it wasn’t two or three days later you guys reached out to me and said, “Hey, we’re interested in looking at other projects. Here’s a couple ideas.” And I was like, “Oh, I’m going to tell these guys my idea about these click campaigns.”

Yeah.

Okay. So fast forward to shooting our very first click campaign, and I remember this, I remember first we sat down at this table and we started going through the script. Okay, now I’ve written copy for several years. If there’s two things that I’ve studied more than anything else in marketing, the first one I started to learn was copywriting. I really wanted to know how to copyright, I wanted to be so good at it.

Yeah.

So I spent a ton of time, read every book, courses, all that kind of stuff. And the next thing was offers, right? Those are the two things where I’m like, “If I am the best at these, I’ll always win.”

Yeah. You’re the rainmaker at that point.

That’s right.

Totally.

And so when we brought you guys in, I have written this script, and I think we started with three offers, Brain Balance Pro, which is our migraine offer, Restore Balance Pro, which is our thyroid offer.

And then the Neuro Soothe or Neuro Sense offer, which is the neuropathy offer. Those were the first ones. And I remember sitting down here and going through the script and you guys reading through it and it wasn’t five minutes and the script was changed and I was like, “Oh, this is even better, this is good.”

Yeah.

And the first thing was on the migraine one. Nicola, you had said, well what about this? And you were adding another set of symptom-ology.

The food.

Yeah. The food. You took something off, which was good, and then you added that. I was like, “Woah, that’s really good.” Right? So that was kind of how this thing started. And I remember when we went through the script, I’m like, “Okay, this is good.”

And then we went into the studio and we shot it. I’m like, “This is amazing. This is definitely going to work.”

Yeah.

Right. And so now that people have that, tell us about your background a little bit and then let’s talk about the pitch. How do you guys do a pitch, how does it translate? How do you take something where you’ve got a guy like me that has an idea, I’ve got a script and we take it from that to creating all sorts of interests from qualified prospects.

Right.

So we’ll go ahead and start there.

Well, our background primarily is in acting. I mean I’ve been an actor since I was a freshman in high school and I’ve identified as an acting artist since I was a sophomore.

I just had one of those experiences that I knew that was my life path. Nicole and I met in college through an acting experience and she had just gotten the bug at that point. And then since then, that 20 years ago, right?

Yeah.

A long time. It was more than 20 years ago.

We just had our 18th anniversary. [crosstalk 00:05:42]

Oh, did you?

Yeah.

Okay. Nicole and I went to high school together for full disclosure. We met there. Right. And when we were juniors.

Yeah. I don’t think we really start hanging out until senior year. But you had a girlfriend who was a year older than us.

Yeah.

And so she left and then you were left adrift.

That’s true.

You and Spencer lost your friend group. They’d all graduated.

That’s true. We were hanging out with the older ladies. You know what I’m saying?

We created a brand new friend group, which was great because I had just moved there and I needed it too with Kylie and Amy.

That’s right. Yeah, that’s right. So we knew each other from there, but you guys took your acting experience and all of where you started and I know you’ve done a lot of commercial stuff. The big one that I know maybe you guys know other ones that I don’t, but the big one was ClickFunnels.

Yep.

Right?

To go back a little bit before that, I’ve acted forever, and it’s hard to make a living as an actor…

Right.

In some aspects. We’ve figured it out for the most part so that we’re doing better now making a living as actors. But I’d taken on another job with a company called ClickBank here in Boise.

Right.

And ClickBank is a big digital online retailer.

Right.

Kind of an 800 pound gorilla in the digital product space.

Right.

EBooks and that kind of stuff. So I started to learn digital marketing and that was 10 years ago. I found Russell Brunson from there and then worked for him back before he had ClickFunnels as one of his coaches. So I’ve been in the acting world for a long time. And then the digital marketing space for quite a while as well.

A nice little blend.

Total marriage. Yeah, 100%.

The thing that was interesting for us is Jared had done a lot of stage acting and that was his degree, theater, and he’d gotten involved with some film stuff, some commercial stuff when we were down in Utah. And then we moved up here, we really focused on improv and we started training people in improv. We opened a theater, we did all that kind of stuff and improv is acting without a script. Then we transitioned into doing some commercial work and some stage work we were working with scripts in plays and that kind of stuff.

And as we started doing all of these things, we looked at it as all part of our acting life I guess. And we didn’t realize, you don’t know sometimes when you have a superpower until Russell knew that we did this stuff. He knew us, he liked us, and asked us to come out and do this commercial for him, and we didn’t even really know what it was. In fact, we never saw script before we showed up. We just had a film day. And so we showed up there and ironically, actually we were the first ones there. We were a little worried we were in the wrong place. And Russell got there and he didn’t have a script. He’d had a concept for what he wanted for the video, and then that night he’d gone to bed and he hated it and he laid awake all night just hating on it and thinking, this is never going to work. This isn’t what I want and changed it so no longer was he going to be in the video with us, which was the original plan. The original, original plan was just me and him. Then he was like, “I’m going to have Jared come do it too.” And then it was like, “I don’t even want to be in it at all. I’m just going to have Jared and Nicole do it. But then I don’t know what I want them to do.” So when he showed up, all he had was a 10 block story storyboard of these are the 10 points that have to be made. But there was nothing written. It was all just a couple of stick figure pictures…

Which I find so funny.

Because they’re so into like specific copywriting and all that.

Yeah. Well not only that, but that video lived on ClickFunnels home sales page for a year and a half. And I don’t know what the volume of users was from when that video went out to when they transitioned to the gold digger one. But I know it was a lot.

Yep.

And it’s really funny because that video was what brought me into the ClickFunnels world. If you could say I’m in the ClickFunnels world.

No, there were a lot of people who still…

We hear that often.

Who are like, “Oh yeah, you’re why I got involved. I saw you guys and I thought, Oh, I’m like them.”

Yeah. But the cool thing about it was, and this is part of the magic, is that as soon as Russell said what ClickFunnels was, it resonated with me because I’m trying to make it in the digital marketing world, right.

We didn’t even know what ClickFunnels was when we showed up to that. We didn’t. [crosstalk 00:10:27] We made it up.

But as soon as he said, “Oh, it does landing pages.” Okay, well…

I know what landing pages are.

Yeah. It clicked for me. Right, [crosstalk 00:10:32] I’m like, “I need this.”

Well, it’s funny because before that I knew what landing pages were too.

Yeah.

But when you guys did the ClickFunnels, I’m like, “What is this?” He positioned it very intelligently, as a thing that you don’t know, but does a pretty cool thing that you want.

Yep.

You know?

Yeah.

Which I feel like that video had a ton of intrigue, a ton of success, but maybe let’s take that and transition over to, we’re doing the same thing, with our click campaigns, right?

Yeah. 100% and for us it breaks down to a couple of different things, right? You have to relate to the people that you’re talking to. Whatever script you’re doing, if you cannot relate to your avatar, your target market, your audience that one person that has the problem that you’re trying to solve, then you’re just talking to glass. You might as well be out talking to the wind, it doesn’t matter there has to be somebody…

Relatability.

Yeah. And we teach that in improv, who is that person and what is their relationship to you?

So one of the things that made that successful is because of our improv and because of our theater and because we’ve been teaching at that point for a long time too, that some of this stuff is very natural to us, what Jared is talking about is bringing it out of the realm of a script into something that is real for people, that has carries real emotion.

Has dimension, yeah.

Right, and for Jared and I, we always laugh because those characters that are in that video are Jared and I, they’re just Jared and I plus a little bit more enthusiastic, a little bit more. But that’s us. That’s not us every minute of the day. Right? We always tell people when we’re doing improv, we want the stories that are the 10% not the 98% of every day. We want the 10% that’s interesting and different. And that’s what that video is. And then later we went to Funnel Hacking Live and thought, “Oh no big deal. We’re just going it will actually be relaxing. It’s just going to be Jared and I.” That was the most exhausting four days of our lives because we felt compelled to be the extra 10%.

You were these characters. Yeah…

Which is us.

Oh that’s hilarious.

But it was hyped up. But one of the things that happens with that is we had a very easy time relating to people in real life, just like we did with that video, is because we understood the problems, we understood where they were at. There was real emotion attached to it. There was a lot of authenticity to it. The same thing happens when we take any other script and that’s something that we do excel at and when I said earlier, you don’t know when you have a super power. We got in the car after that ClickFunnels thing, we had to drive up a couple hours away to celebrate a birthday for our daughter and we both sat there for a little while and then I was like, “I don’t know if other actors could have done what we just did for him.” Because it was such a marrying of all of these skills that we had and that’s when we realized, “Oh okay, we are good at this.” So then when you asked us to come do this for us, this is like, “Oh yeah, we can do this, this will be fun. This is exciting.”

Well as soon as we know that person that we’re talking to, we can bring in our own experiences. And if we’re talking about neuropathy, maybe neither one of us has had neuropathy, but there’s been points in our lives when we’ve had nerve pain or even [crosstalk 00:14:01] any type of pain. Right? And so how do we take that and relate that to the person that we’re talking to?

Yeah. Right. Well, and then I would say so every offer that we create in the click campaign bank, that we have available for people, the goal is to make a person want what we’re offering. Okay. And so all of these niches are relatively unknown to the public. Right? So you guys, before you came in, had you ever heard of knee decompression?

No.

Okay.

I knew about back decompression just from having physical therapy for my back years ago.

Yeah. so, these are things that are ridiculously on the cutting edge of technology, but because they’re not opening people up and using robots to, you know that kind of crap? There’s not as much cachet or coverage on them. But knee decompression, spinal decompression, these different approaches to functional medicine. These are better approaches to these things. They’re not a silver bullet. Nothing is. But they’re absolutely amazing. But you guys got to take a concept, and this is the same thing for me when I’m writing a script, I got to take a concept that people don’t know, build interest and desire to the point where I want that thing or I want to try knee decompression or I want to try that supplement Brain Balance Pro because I get migraines, whatever it is.

So I come into it saying, “Hey, I need a hook. I need a big idea. I need something that’s going to sizzle. I need something that’s going to grab attention.” Specifically, I’ll just give an example, like in a Brain Balance Pro. Yeah. Brain Balance Pro is the one that has 11 years of M.I.T. experience behind magnesium l’threonate, you know? And so I had to tell that story in that many sentences, to where it’d be like, “Boom!” Yeah. That’s interesting.

There was a very small amount of sentences for those of you that are listening.

Yes, that’s right. But you guys take what I have and you added, again, another dimension to it. I mean, if you took the the script and put it on an ad, it’s not going to work.

Sure.

But when you guys do it on video, bam it worked. So talk about the things that you’re doing to create that interest and attention.

Okay. So a couple of things about that. One, the hooks are awesome, that you come up with. And I think the hooks married with the personal relatability that we bring is the magic sauce. I don’t think one would work without the other. So I’ll just say that. But then on the next step in that, is that Nicole and I both read a ton. I mean we are really well-read. I don’t want to say we’re super smart or anything like that…

I am super smart.

But you have had five kids.

Yeah, I’ve lost brains. This is me super smart without…

She’s lost more brains than I have ever had.

Oh my god, she would be scary, what if you didn’t have any kids? She’d be like…

We’d be like the president or something, not that that takes much intelligence. But anyway, the point is this, we bring some experience as far as words go, into the experience.

Right.

There’s not a lot of words that we haven’t seen or read. We’re out of battery on that guy.

Okay, well we’re good on that one.

All right.

So you guys keep talking. This will be improv. I’m going to go out of battery but keep going.

Awesome. So we bring that knowledge to it. So when we’re, we’re reading the hook, it’s things that maybe we haven’t heard about before, but we can really quickly catch up on where that is at and how to relate it to other people.

So we talk about a tool that we’ve used specifically for people who maybe aren’t experienced performers, that there are some different parts to how you deliver, we call it character work. And what we mean by that is the persona that you are presenting as somebody who’s talking and there’s four parts we call it W.H.I.P.. You start at the head and go and go down. So the first one is words, which is the words that are written and also how you say them and do they make sense and how do you deliver them?

Subtext a little bit.

Yeah, so all of that is the script and how that all fits together. So words are important and with good words, that sticks out.

Right.

So that’s the first part. The next part is important and that’s the heart. And that is when you put in the emotion, the feeling, words without heart are boring. And it’s one of the reasons why written is a different ballgame…

It is.

Because you can’t put the emotion into it. Right so…

You can’t show the emotion in it.

Right. And so the delivery is different. And so to have heart in your writing is a different thing than what we’re talking about. So you’ve got the heart and that is also not just your emotion but the emotional journey that you’re wanting. Especially when we’re talking about any kind of sales copy, any kind of commercial, anything like that. You’re talking about the journey you’re trying to take somebody on with you, at the beginning you want them curious. It’s why people put hooks and something interesting to grab attention at the beginning. You want them curious and then…

But you also want them to know what that pain is that they’re dealing with.

Yeah, that’s the next part. So you get them in like, “Do you know what it feels like when you’re stuck?” I mean, I remember looking at the neuropathy offer and thinking, “Okay, is this people who know they have neuropathy or people who have nerve pain and don’t know that it’s called neuropathy and that there might be something they could do.” And so it’s some of that, it’s figuring out, where are they at the beginning? They’re in pain and they’ve tried things, they’re feeling hopeless, they don’t know what to do next. And then it’s, where do we go? Well, for me, when we get to the M.I.T. stuff, it was like, “Look how exciting this is.”

There’s hope.

Oh my gosh, researchers have spent years working on something that might help you. This is an amazing gift.

So as deep as the hook is. And you can get as technical as you want in the hook. But the reality is, what’s the feeling that you want that hook to bring out? So I mean, M.I.T. And magnesium and all that kind of stuff, a lot of that is gobbledygook to a lot of people, but the feeling that they have is not gobbledygook.

So for me, with the M.I.T., It was the wow factor. Wow, these are the people who did it. Then it was the hope and the excitement. So all of those things I’m thinking about as I’m delivering it. And it’s the same thing. I mean, hey, if my kid comes home, our 15 year old just got given a car, not by us, by somebody else, and the excitement of that moment. It wasn’t going to be something that I was like, so a Century Buick is an old one, but it’s nice and heavy, it’ll be safe. That’s not how we’re going to deliver it. [crosstalk 00:21:12] You know, it’s like, “Oh my gosh, this car only has 40,000 miles on it. You are so lucky.”

Well, we don’t get feature laden. In our scripts, if there’s a feature mentioned, it’s mentioned in the context of a story.

Right.

Right. So getting feature heavy is a good way to turn people thinking with the wrong part of their brain, you know what I mean?

And for us, that’s the magic, taking that hook that you come up with and marrying it to the emotion, excitement, hope, potential, joy. All of those things that these people want in order to overcome the problem that they’re having.

Right. And just in closing, one of the things that I really like and I want you to maybe talk to a little bit, these scripts are written in chunks. Meaning when I write a lead, that’s the beginning, and a transition and a body and a hook and all that kind of crap that goes into it. As I write, I’m doing it to say, “Hey, this is to get your attention. This is to increase your desire.” Those are the stages I’m going through. You guys have some tools that make the clarity that people can have, on another level. Meaning there was a part in the script we talked about where it’s like, “Hey, we don’t know if we can help you because we haven’t met you yet.” Right? And so there’s gestures, there’s cadence, there’s tone, there’s all these things where you guys are using those tools to not only create good interest and desire, like people wanting the thing, but also when they come in, they’re not just tire kicking because they didn’t listen to the video or whatever the case may be. They know what they’re getting in for.

They’re educated because you’ve taken them through using all these skills. So talk to me about, if you create confusion, you create no conversion. Right? So talk to me about how you create clarity through the pitch.

Well, it comes down to the next two things that we actually teach people. Nicole talked about words and heart and the next who are intuition or gut and then physicality. And we’re not afraid to talk with our hands in front of the camera or our bodies. And it comes down to some N.L.P. Principles and those kinds of things that come across on camera that people don’t realize. If we’re gesturing, we’re inviting people in, we’re pushing things away if it’s bad. Those are all just things that come natural to us because we’ve been in front of thousands of audiences.

I think sometimes people get on camera and they’re afraid to move and that is hard.

They feel silly.

Right, they feel stuck and it’s kind of weird. But in reality most people talk with their hands a little bit. So that’s part of it. It’s having loose shoulders, it’s going through and just making sure that you’re comfortable. I mean sometimes cameras will go in and out of focus or you have a specific plane you need to stay on or something like that. And so maybe you don’t have as much movement as you would like, but that doesn’t mean that there’s not some things you can do. And so having a physically loose body before you go into film is a good idea. But then the intuition, the gut stuff, that’s the honesty, that’s like the real you. And bringing that part of you in can be a little bit hard, especially when it’s maybe words that are somebody else’s words or is a script. And so how does that translate? How do you get honest about pieces and parts? How do you bring you in?

Here’s what’s funny. I have an ongoing project for a car company, a nationwide car company. They send me these eight to thirteen second tags to record and it’s just voiceovers and they take my voice and they put them on whatever commercial they’ve shot.

You know the guy at the end with all the, “Some exclusions apply.”

Visit Santa Monica now for yada yada.

Yeah.

And I mean they’re just really quick. But what helps me to record those is that right before I say the actual line, I say somebody’s name. So, “Hey Sam, visit Salem Honda online.com.” Or whatever. So that it makes it so that I’m relating to a person…

Oh yeah, that’s a good idea.

Instead of just reading the line, and again it comes down to nailing your ideal customer and nailing your avatar. I think if doctors were really talking to a patient instead of a camera, they could do that and do it easier. For us, it comes natural.

Yeah, some people are going to not be able to turn the camera into an avatar and have the avatar be enough. For me, I can make up a character avatar and have them on the other side of the camera and talk to them and it’s going to seem natural. That’s not for everybody.

Yeah, at the drop of a hat.

If you can’t do that, that’s fine. But pick somebody in your life who you can put in there, who you are talking to, a real person.

Yeah. Well this has been a lot of fun. In fact, this is the second time we’ve done this because I hit a little audio glitch on the last one. But if you guys are watching this, all of the videos that we’ve shot for our click campaigns and everything we’ve done is an effort to provide a higher quality and more qualified leads. Anyway, so with that in mind, thank you so much for watching this episode of Behind the Offer, Behind the Pitch, and we’ll see you on the next video.